Is college necessary for all

Tara

sources- http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0710/experience-or-education-which-one-lands-you-the-job.aspx

http://www.recruiter.com/i/degree-vs-experience-which-one-truly-benefits-job-seekers/

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0511/work-experience-vs.-education-which-lands-you-the-best-job.aspx

Education vs Experience

·       A prospective lawyer going to work in a law firm instead of working on their master’s degree

·       If your car broke down would you want somebody to fix it who went to school for mechanics but never actually touched and automobile, or somebody who owns their own shop and fixes cars everyday but lacks a piece of paper?

·       People who do the bare minimum in college, just enough to get by, do they know more about a certain topic than somebody who has been working in the field for 4 years?

o   They are going to be taught something in school but never learn it and then they are going to have to actually learn it when they get in the field, which is a waste of 4 years because they could have been making money instead of working their way into debt.

·       Huge difference between your professor teaching it and quizzing you on it rather than using the skill in real life.

·       A college degree states that you can succeed in academia, not in a job

·       Getting a degree in technology, will be useless because while you’re learning it, it is already becoming replaced by something higher and more technical than the first.

o   Working in the field, you are constantly learning and being taught the new material.

·       In sales, having a record of bringing in and making a lot of money will trump a college degree

·       Getting experience and making a name for yourself in a company is important. If they wish to promote you and you need a college degree, there is a great chance that the company will pay for you to go to school because they know how good of a worker you are.

o   My step dad is an electrician and at first he started at a low paying job, working with one of his friends. He started making a name for himself and the company and after 2 years he was promoted and sent to college by his boss (for free.) Now, 6 years later, he is working for a company that works for rich and famous people making 6 figures a year, doing the same thing that he has been doing since he was 17, being an electrician.

Kevin

Student Loans $1 trillion in the US.  www.forbes.com/sites/hardeepwalia 9/26/2013, Hardeep Walia

Bill Gates, Carlos Slim, Richard Branson, all didn't go to college. Forbes.com Top RIch List

Plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters median pay $47,000. While median pay for all other jobs with a college degree is $33,000 including college debts.

money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post ( Airee Picchi, 05/20/2013 Mike Bloomberg, Skip college become a plumber.

By 2018, 14 million well paying jobs available for people who finish high school

diploma, but lower than a college degree, so basically 2 year associate degree.

there are 115,000 Janitors who have a college degree.

A college Degree may not be worth the cost. Brooke Berger, 05/09/2013.

45% of people show no improvements in critical thinking after college. 44% in 2009 were unemployed with a degree.

Jeff’s Argument

David Leonhardt, a writer for the New York Times, wrote “only 33 percent of the freshmen who enter the University of Massachusetts, Boston, graduate within six years. Less than 41 percent graduate from the University of Montana, and 44 percent from the University of New Mexico”.

From these statistics gathered across the nation we can see that the number of college drop outs is alarmingly high.  This is due to 3 reasons,

            1: New students are unprepared academically for the rigors that college classes present.

            2: They don’t know why they are in college i.e. they don’t have good time management skills,                               motivation, or life skills to succeed, and

            3: They become psyched out when they realize that the first semester will basically determine                   their performance academically for the next four years.

The high rate of drops show plainly that college is really not for everyone and that some people should save their time and money for other pursuits.

Rebuttal:

When making this argument, I realized that the reasons I mentioned can be taught to college students and should be taught to high school students but, to be frank, these skills are not being taught in high schools and most college students don’t have the motivation or the awareness to go get help until it is too late. But, this all depends on the student’s personality type. If they are hard headed, they will most likely not drop out even if it is too late to get help.

Opening Statement

a college degree states that you can succeed in academics not in a job

a degree in technology will be useless by the time you get to use it bc technology will be newer and more improved

Not everyone who goes to college is prepared for it, which leads to a high college drop out rate, which makes colleges and the country on a whole look bad.

Education	Percentage
High school graduate	87.65%
Some college	57.28%
Associate's and/or Bachelor's degree	40.58%
Bachelor's degree	30.94%
Master's degree	8.05%
Doctorate or professional degree	3.07%

Is College still worth it?

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-a-college-degree-still-worth-it

Anders_Childhood Education Data and Statistics

http://www.greatschools.org/students/academic-skills/1207-kindergarten-benchmarks.gs

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-education.aspx

Myths and Realities About Rising College Tuition

http://www.nasfaa.org/advocacy/perspectives/articles/Myths_and_Realities_about_Rising_College_Tuition.aspx

Informal Writing #7 - Danny Wallace

Informal Writing #7

            The following debate on the topic of “Whether the Humanities should be a requirement for all college students” took place on October 24^th, 2013. The debate took place between Gordon Hunter, director of the Trowbridge initiative in the American cultures at the University of Illinois and the editor of American Literary History, and Belinda Parmer, founder of the social enterprise “Little Miss Geek”. Hunter was on the side for the Humanities to be taught at public universities while Parmer was on the side against.

Opening Statement:

Hunter: A democracy can only be as energetic as the mind of its citizens. The questions fundamental to the humanities are also fundamental to a thoughtful life. What is good, what is beauty, do we need God? What is to become of a culture when public universities are deprived of these very things that make up the fundamental pillars of our society. Are private institutions and the elite, going to be the only institutions that are allowed to experience the cultivation of imagination?

Rebuttal:

Parmer: In theory, that is all good and well but lets look at this from a realistic standpoint. I personally got a degree in French and Spanish. With that degree I went to my first job interview, they say I had a degree in both those languages and they asked me “what else can you do?” At that moment it dawned on me that the humanities can be useful in theory, but they really are not going to give you a skill set that will be useful in a job like a technical major. 

Question: With money being a current hold back on many universities and their motivation on whether or not to keep Humanities programs, what do you have to say to sway them either for or against?

Parmer: I would say that studying the humanities is a waste in our current economic situation. In an age where learning code impacts the world in a far greater way than learning literature, we must put our focus on the technical studies. If that means that humanities must be dropped in order to provide proper funding, so be it

Rebuttal:

Hunter: We cannot give up on the humanities and continue a watered down curriculum in order to provide for undergraduate seats. We must set out our priorities and recognize that with the humanities, comes a higher developed mind capable of learning.

Closing Statement:

Parmer: I feel into the gender-induced stereotype of following a career into the humanities. Not realizing that that top three paying jobs for females are all in the technical field. Now, I have a 5 year old daughter, I will not let her blindly fall into the gender stereotypes that I did. I want her to embrace the fact that a science or technical degree will not limit her creativity but expand it and broaden her horizons far more than my arts background could.

Hunter: We cannot allow for a articulately stale curriculum based on what some call necessity, to override our need for a greater and more expanding learning in the field of the humanities. The humanities have always been apart of our culture and giving up on them at public universities is one step closer to giving up on them in our society.

Informal Writing #7

Belinda Parmar:

I believe that studying humanities in college is not a wise investment for your future.  I majored in French and Spanish, but was always asked about what technical skills I could bring to the table at job interviews.  My degrees were never enough.  Therefore, I think that students, specifically girls who tend to be socially pressured into these areas of study, should be discouraged to study the humanities so as to not make finding a job after college more of a challenge than it already is.

A survey conducted on the best-paid jobs for women were found to all be in the technology sector (Pharmacist, Chief Executive, and Lawyer).  Why wouldn’t they be?  Technology is so prevalent in our everyday lives that one would expect to have the highest paying jobs in technology.  It only makes sense.

Gordon Hutner:                  

               I agree with you that statistically speaking, a humanities degree does not alone guarantee you a high paying job, but I believe that they are necessary for a higher end thinking.  I think that the humanities are very pertinent to a lawyer and a chief executive, because what is going to make one CEO standout from another is going to be his or her ability to be the most efficient, and sometimes the most graceful.  When I say graceful I mean charming, well-rounded, looking like they got everything other control, and also having the power to persuade others.  These things can all be emphasized and practiced through the study of humanities.  A CEO and a lawyer can make a better persuasive case using rhetorical appeals that he learned in his English class.  A CEO could use what he or she knows about other nations to be able to connect with international customers.  A lawyer could use what he or she knows about how people tend to act in groups from his or her sociology class to help strengthen his or her case against his or her opponent. 

No a humanities degree may not make the next new technology out there, however, it will be necessary to ponder the things in this society that govern so much of our society: politics, religion, philosophy, and even civics.  Without the humanities, there would be no meaning in life other than to continue to progress technology, which is a very empty lifestyle.  Looking into the humanities such as religion, can provide a sense of higher purpose, and establish a set of morals that technology cannot provide by itself.  These morals can further be transposed into civics, which can be used to gain voters in political debates for office.  Therefore, I believe that having a degree or background in the humanities could be used to one’s advantage.

Belinda Parmar:

               Interest in technology is growing a lot faster than an interest in the humanities, which is a direct correlation of how much technology is becoming a part of our everyday lives.  “Anybody can learn to code and these days it’s as important as reading and writing…. Not being able to code limits your impact on the world far more than an ignorance of great literature.”  Why bother learning something that we cannot actually use?

Gordon Hutner:

               Because “knowledge is power.” The more you know, the more you have the ability to manipulate others and the more qualified you will be to perform tasks that involve any kind of social interaction.  Another reason why we should learn the humanities even though you say we cannot use them, they keep other jobs and majors that are in the technical sector more privileged and less populated.  If the humanities are taken from public colleges, then there will be an overwhelming amount of people learning to become doctors, dentists, surgeons, and optometrists (etc.).  Not only that, but colleges will have to lower standards of performance in these areas so that more students will succeed, thereby continuing a similar income that colleges are used to with the addition of humanities programs.  This lowering of standards will ultimately make the technical jobs less skilled and prestigious.  A doctorate will mean less and an undergraduate degree would be even less significant. 

               In short, the humanities are a vital part to our society.  Without them, our world would be so dim; it would be focused on coming up with the next new thing.  Things like love and faith would be a thing in the past.  Society would eventually evolve into robots.  I don’t mean that people will start to develop circuitry in their bodies, I just mean that they will be like a giant assembly line, working to make the world a more technologically advanced place.  The humanities keep us in touch with who we as humans are.  It tells a story about what humans are all about.  Without them, our society, in the moral turmoil that it is already in, will begin to crumble into insanity and chaos pulling all those holding on to the humanities with them.    

Informal Writing #7 - Jeremy ilang-ilang

Informal Writing #7

Talk Show Host: John Moyen

Author #1: Jeffrey Dorfman

Author #2: David Leonhardt

John Moyen: Hello, welcome everybody to the What’s In It For Today show! I’m John Moyen, your talk show host for today and today we are going to discuss a crucial topic, called “Is college a basic need that should be affordable to everyone?” Today we have authors Jeffrey Dorfman, author of “There Is No College Tuition ‘Bubble’” and David Leonhardt of “The College Dropout Boom”. How are you two doing?

Jeffrey Dorfman: I’m doing well, thank you.

David Leonhardt: Doing just fine.

John Moyen: So what are you guys think about college being a basic need and being affordable for everyone who wants to attend? David, let’s start with you.

David Leonhardt: Well in this economy, it’s obvious that the price of college is too damn high nowadays. You got kids who really want to attend college but can’t really afford it and you got kids who are rich by birth and most of the high-income students sometimes don’t pay attention to the financial crisis. Just as I said in my article, only about a 41% of low-income students have managed to graduate school within a five-year period, as found by the Department of Education and however 66% of high-income students have. And I have to agree with the Harvard president stating “We need to recognize that the most serious domestic problem in the United States today is the widening gap between the children of the rich and the children of the poor…” because it is really unfair for students who weren’t born in a pile of gold.

John Moyen: Interesting take, David. So now, what is your take, Jeff?

Jeffrey Dorfman: I’d have to agree with that point. We can see nowadays that college prices are skyrocketing and are trending in the news recently. Just as stated in the beginning of my article, private colleges are expensive as always, and I know personally because of my daughter currently attending one and public colleges are increasing rates so that they can offset the budget cuts on the funds received by the state. I know people try and look at the “big picture” of colleges and their prices, but realistically, there are many colleges that are underpriced, according to the economic standards.

David Leonhardt: Well, that’s easy for you to say, Jeffrey. You’re trying to point out that many colleges are underpriced, not even the fair price, but “underpriced” according to your terms, while you have a daughter that attends an expensive private college. It seems like you’re coming off a rich background and that you wouldn’t take this topic in a serious manner but a manner that you would just summarize. For everyone who wants to go to a college of their choice, every college, even the expensive ones should provide every interested student with an affordable opportunity.

Jeffrey Dorfman: First of all, I never stated that I am a rich family nor come from a rich family background. I just have only enough to pay for my daughter’s education that I’ve been saving up ever since she was a child. Second of all, colleges’ actual cost compared to the commercialized costs in the media are actually much lower than usual. As I pointed out in my article, “When President Obama and other critics of college costs complain about sky-high tuition, they are either misleading people or do not understand the difference between the full list price and the average net price. After all, the only people paying the high prices for colleges are the ‘rich’ people who the very same critics believe in taxing so highly”. These prices do not seem as bad as they actually are, so they are quite actually affordable. Another thing I pointed out in my article, for instance, Harvard’s full price as stated in the media is at $59,800 but the average price paid by students who qualify for financial aid is only $15,550. When you actually examine the price personally, it doesn’t seem bad as it is in the media.

David Leonhardt: Okay, well what if those students STILL don’t have the money to pay off those fees? I’m sure to many students, that’s still an unaffordable price. I also want to talk about the selectivity of students by colleges, specifically the elite ones. If you read towards the end of my article, you would see that specific topic. Low-income students’ chances of getting in, despite their high test scores and astoundingly high GPA, has no better chance when being compared to higher-income students who are equal academically. Why? Because colleges demand both a brain and a great contributor to the school, and that’s a lose-lose situation in terms of not providing affordable options for lower-income students and not selecting a low-income student to attend their school.

Jeffrey Dorfman: Okay, well for those low-income students, maybe the expensive top-elite schools shouldn’t be their only choice. There are many affordable options to choose from. Again, going back to my article, low-income students can choose to attend a local community college or local state university that has prices much cheaper compared to these famous, expensive universities and that’s a great choice for them. During that period, students can save money to transfer later on to the institution of their choice. Likewise, just because Mercedes has a car that costs $100,000 doesn’t mean all cars are unaffordable, you just got to choose something that you can afford in the situation that a student is in at this point.

John Moyen: Well, time to wrap this up for today’s talk. Great discussion from these two authors. Again, ladies and gentlemen, Jeffrey Dorfman and David Leonhardt.